I was a guest on Uniqueways Podcast hosted by Thomas Girard. It was an absolute honor to be invited and a joy to answer his 20 questions. The links to the podcast are below, followed by the transcript.

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TG: hey hey everyone welcome to unique ways with Thomas Gerard and audio podcast that really excellent guest on today. she’s a designer at NASA’s jet propulsion lab and a recent speaker at Config. for over a decade she’s worked in various places ranging from Tech startups to design agencies to Fortune 500 companies and she has a love for good design and appreciation of all things nerdy. please join me in welcoming Joyce Croft. welcome.

JC: thank you. thanks for the a great intro.

TG: you ready for 20 questions?

JC: I am.

TG: okay. question one: tell me a little bit more about yourself. what do you do?

JC: yeah, well like you said I am a designer at NASA jet propulsion laboratory. it’s in Pasadena, California just outside of Los Angeles. my official title is senior lead human centered designer and within that I’m actually a design lead for a group called The innovation Foundry. it’s part of the office of formulation at JPL and The Innovation Foundry is a group that coordinates and provides leadership for all JPL formulation activities and that includes Mission ideation, some concept development and proposal work. it’s really, really cool.

TG: okay. awesome. question two: what’s a key piece of knowledge that makes you different?

JC: um okay so I asked I I wasn’t sure how to answer this one so I asked a good friend of mine and she told me that my strength is my ability to translate Research into design which I think is a good strength but I think that my special unique strength is keeping the human touch alive and I talked a lot about this in my config presentation that soft skills are my superpower and I feel like the more we develop and and advanced technology, the further that it takes us kind of away from each other. we start to lose that humanness and I really like the term human centered designer. there is a reason that it’s called that because there is a need for it and for me it doesn’t matter the company or the product or the industry – will always come across as, designers will always come across similar problems and personally I’ve already seen a lot of them so dealing with the humans is a huge part of my work

TG: we had an early supporter John Maeda on the show who used to do a design and tech report that really got me into that space. But it’s super interesting to hear more on that yeah so question three: why this of all things why do you do what you do?

JC: oh wow well first I’m an artist. I’m a creator at my core. I’ve always been driven to create and I really thrive in solving complex problems like the people that I work with they always hear me say that I love the hard problems give me the hard problems so it’s no surprise that I end up working in Aerospace and I always love to say I love to organize the chaos of a complex problem and I love telling a story and so design is a a great place to be in. it’s often kind of a misunderstood discipline because it is so many things within it and I like that and for me part of it is also conversations with people and resolving conflicts a lot of times we’re speaking the same language but there are misinterpretations within that and you know sometimes those things happen and there are conflicts and I don’t really enjoy resolving conflicts but it is necessary for the job and so I realize that difficult conversations need to be had you know in order to move forward.

TG: great great people struggle with number four but the question is what does your future look like?

JC: oh yes yeah that’s a hard one um it’s for me it’s it’s it’s lots of travel for me it’s also living comfortably and just simply being happy and wherever that takes me that’s where it takes me. I’m also really excited for the next generation of designers and I intend to pass on um the things that I have learned to them.

TG: great. five: we say is unique to the show the question is let’s talk about location how does the notion of place play into what you do?

JC: oh okay so it’s a couple of things. location well right now I live in LA, you know, City of Angels, La La Land tinsle Town whatever you want to call it. to me it’s and when I got here it I I thought it was the city with the most generic Skyline. it’s not very memorable but I do love the skyline when you get those palm trees in the foreground and then you add to that the LAPD helicopters that you know and then it’s just so iconic and then it’s like then it’s memorable and it’s really cool. but I moved here about four years ago. I was in the San Francisco area and I actually lived in the city of San Francisco. I worked a lot in the tech industry for a long time and I while I was in San Francisco I actually watched the tech people drive out a lot of the artists and creativity. there were a lot of galleries that were actually in San Francisco and it was kind of pushed out because of all the Tech startups and that boom and so I was really happy to move to LA which is a lot bigger where there is, you know, an art scene still here there’s music and there’s film and I love those things because they Inspire and influence me and I like being out and about and the weather is always good here it’s warm the sun is always out and I love people watching um I’m always an observer and yeah I just I like the so that’s the location part and then the second question was how does the notion of place play into what I do.

TG: that’s right.

JC: yeah um well, Place, well that could mean a lot of things. well, we just talked about location so it could be like where I am. Place could be like a ranking. we could say that we’re all a number in some sense. we could add time to place and it becomes space and I think that becomes interesting so it’s a particular position and time which I think that creates opportunities but I think I’d like to answer it with Place being my role in a particular context. I like to meet people where they are at, particularly in my work I kind of like to get thrown into that chaos, into the deep end of the pool, and find my place in there and not really know anything that’s going on and kind of figure it out so I love that that sort of notion of place.

TG: great. number six: if you had to start from the beginning, what advice would you give your former younger self?

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JC: oh wow, uh, go to law school. no I’m just kidding. if I had a mentor early on tell me that about the hard part of the job of being a designer I probably would have chosen another path. that’s kind of a joke that I always say because the hard part is, you know, the people part of it. it is exercising those soft skills. it’s not just it’s not just about selling your idea or solution but it’s also dealing with other people. the selling of your idea is something that paula scheer talks a lot about. your stakeholders want proof that it will work but there really is no proof a lot of the times and I really like talking about it in the terms of you know dealing with the humans and that part of it is the real hard part of the job of being a designer. the easy part is you know the making the designs and putting headphones on and pushing pixels around but the hard part is is something that people don’t talk about a whole lot.

TG: great. seven: what’s a day in your life like?

JC: oh uh depends on the day. but usually for me uh I wake up anywhere from around 4: or 5 a.m. I get up really early. I have a really strong cup of coffee usually in flavor not in caffeine. I like the the flavor of it and then this is the only time of the day that I actually sit in quiet where it’s completely quiet while I drink my coffee and then I’ll slowly start to listen to some podcasts. I really like listening to Prof G or pivot. I’ll switch between those and conan O’Brien needs a friend which is really entertaining. healthy Runner which, I’m a runner so I like to listen about running techniques and things and training training tips and then sometimes I listen to some Bachelor reality show Recaps. that’s my thing. I like trashy TV sometimes and the hbr idea cast is actually pretty good. and then I’ll start to get up and about and I’ll eat like 200 calories of carbs. maybe a little bit of protein and then I’ll do my early morning run after that if there’s time I’ll do some strength training and then I’ll get to work. if I go into the office if I go on lab, then I’ll spend the whole day there but and then if I’m working from home I’ll just start up my computer and then it’s a lot of emails and a lot of meetings more meetings and then there’s maybe a lunch in there then I’ll get some production work in the afternoon. there might be another meeting or two when I get to actually do some work I’ll put my headphones on with the loud music and then in the evening it’s tennis or gym time if I didn’t strength train earlier in the day. some emails and then I start to wind down and I’ll watch a little bit of TV to kind of turn my brain off and then eventually put devices away have some tea read and then sleep repeat and then on weekends and holidays I just replace the workday schedule with my hobbies or volunteer work. and hobbies can be anywhere from like crafts and sewing embroidery drawing just something creative and then also one of those weekend days will be a really long run it’s usually more than like 10, 10 miles or more. and since I’m always training I’m always eating so I eat a lot throughout the day it takes up a lot of time.

TG: awesome and that Segways nicely into number eight which is around lifelong learning. it’s a popular topic. how do you stay up to date?

JC: yes, I have mentors. my mentors these days are usually not really design mentors they’re more business minded mentors. so they kind of guide me in finances and strategy sort of things. so I have them. I read a lot of news, pop culture because I love like I said trashy TV, a lot of reading. I read a lot of books and then I also stay up to date with like all the cool things and the trends from junior designers that I work with and know and my nephews and my cousins keep me current and cool. I’ve been involved in the Arts and I’ve been a designer for a long time so I you know, I’ve exercised that a lot and I know the principles of design so, for me I’m now learning and growing other critical skills. so it’s about negotiation and strategy work and working with other people. I read a lot of lawyer books right now on how to do good lawyering, if that’s a word. and then I also read books on FBI profiling which is really interesting because I love learning about and studying human behavior and that profiling actually helps me with reading people and working with people and because I really like to get into what truly motivates other people and work with them that way and kind of meet them halfway.

TG: nice. okay, nine is tools can you talk about digital and analog tools?

JC: yes. let’s see analog tool my favorite tool of all time is a toothbrush. that’s my snarky answer. I love pen and paper. I’m still an avid notetaker. I have a lot of notebooks. drawings and just cribbles and just numerous notes. when I take notes, it sticks with me a lot longer I can actually remember them rather than typing. I’m not a fan of typing out notes I really like pen and paper. I also because I do crafts, scissors, rotary cutters, sewing machine… that’s a huge thing in my life and for digital stuff because I love traveling um I’m somewhere like every other weekend and I actually do my best work in hotels I think it’s because I’m not at home and distracted by things and it’s very clean, so I love that and so my digital tools are, you know, I work a lot in spreadsheets. I talk a lot about that in my config talk. figma, illustrator, I’m on my iPhone a lot. MacBook, of course, a lot of texting, mural for digital whiteboarding, email, slack, calendar.

TG: yeah great. halfway. number 10: how do you deal with work life or life work balance

JC: oh wow. well, first there is no balance. the balance actually, it tips toward Joyce. I am number one I prioritize my health and my well-being above everything else and it actually took me a while to get to this place. the balance used to tip the other way. years ago, work was prioritized and everything just suffered from that and I it took me a while to realize that if I am not 100% if my health and well-being is not 100% it affects everything else in my life. my work is not good and my relationships are not good so I made a switch and and and fix that and I’m a big calendar person. I block off time for everything and mostly I block off time for my runs my workouts, Sports. and I chase the endorphins. I, you know, prioritize exercise, good food, and sleep. I love naps and restorative yoga and I make sure that time is blocked on my calendar and that I stick to it. that it is a priority to take care of my body and unfortunately all of that training, I have to eat a lot and that takes up a lot of my time so I’m actually active you know about one and a half to two hours every day and some days even a little bit more if I needed to help me sleep or if I just have a lot of energy that I need to get out. also the running sort of helps me work through problems that I have, if I’m working on a big sticky problem it actually really helps and then on off days I like to take care of myself with spa days and manicures, walks. the point is I want to live forever I know that’s not possible but I want to live forever

TG: okay, if you weren’t doing what you do now what might you be doing?

JC: lawyering. no, probably not. no, I would actually probably be making art on an island somewhere.

TG: what would you not like to do with your career?

JC: oh, anything with like, operations, scheduling, like Gant charts, looking at Gant charts and and moving things around on Gant charts. things with Logistics, you know, project management. I like product management. I don’t like project management and in work I also don’t enjoy the pixel pushing part. I’m not a polisher just because it takes so much time to do. I like to get my designs you know when we’re talking about visuals to get it good enough. and I believe that if you have a good really good design system with the components like you know margins and padding and spacing type faces and sizes those are already defined so it reduces that time that you actually have to push things around. no need to spend time on details like that. I’m a conceptual thinker and my time is best spent on that. I like the big picture stuff, Vision stuff, and I like, you know, those hard problems so anything that outside of that, I’d rather not spend time doing.

TG: great 13 do you have a favorite word quote or sentence?

JC: yes. this one’s a new one to me as of like, the past year, year and a half. it’s a favorite. I guess it’s a quote I heard it somewhere but I kind of adopted it as my Mantra that I practice now: return the gifts life has given to you. and I now practice that.

TG: how about a least favorite word, quote, or sentence?

JC: it’s a word and it’s the word: should. usually comes in, you should do this you should do that do that and when I hear it um I kind of shut down

TG: If you were to choose one word to describe yourself, what word do you choose?

JC: playful. this was a hard one for me but playful was the one that it came down to and basically because I just don’t take myself too seriously. I like having fun and being silly. I love humor and I love laughing. I like being able to find humor in things because life is, you know, for all of us is just full of ups and downs and the wonderful thing about being a human is our ability to be flexible and adapt and deal with those, you know, those Hard Times and lean on the people that we have to get through it because those down times aren’t constant you’ll you know eventually you’ll get an up and then we can all celebrate that together. but having a playful or just a genuine attitude towards life and things helps you get through things easier. I’m also told that I have a very infectious laugh. it’s a very loud laugh because I laugh with everything. it’s very physical for me and I love that.

TG: what keeps you up at night?

JC: sugar and caffeine after 12: p.m. but also a sticky problem. if there’s something that I’m trying to solve and and it’s you know it’s a very complex problem and they say you know complex problems are usually just a bunch of little problems together so I’ll be up at night thinking about it and trying to figure it out. I keep pen and paper next to my bed just and get an idea of how to do something. but if I’m working on something that I’m having a hard time figuring out I will wake up in the middle of the night and start thinking about it which is not great trying to solve it but it happens.

TG: great. final stretch here

00:21:12.880 what’s a dream you’re chasing

JC: there’s three things. there’s the material things: money. I love money. I don’t need a lot of money. I just need enough money to live comfortably and also I’m working up to get a 911 Targa and then uh accomplishments I would love to be in the United Club Million Miler Club. I’m getting close to it I have a couple friends in there it just would be fun to be there and I don’t know what I would do with it once I have it but just would be fun. I just love traveling so it’s not that far out of reach. I would also love to be a published author. I am working on a book that I’ve been working on for a few years now it’s a children’s book so we’ll see how far I get with that and then personal dreams, achievements. I guess I really value intense friendships and connections. relationships are really, really important to me so always looking for people. I collect people.

TG: nice. okay, number 18: what inspires you?

JC: oo, a lot of things. I love things that inspire me to make stuff and that could be anywhere. I can find it anywhere it could be you know a portfolio I’m reviewing. it could just be a cool image, a scene in a film, artwork, music, colors, textures. I love textures. and I think lately and mostly I get inspired but with the conversations that I have with people since I lean extrovert. I lean toward extrovert and I externalize a lot and I meet a lot of people very easily so many ideas and things come out of conversations and I love having a really interesting conversation with someone and I love when people add something to it. it’s kind of like that old improv rule saying yes and… to not shut down a conversation you kind of go with it. and feed it and great ideas are there. and I like to see where it takes you so inspiration is there.

TG: great. and last couple here number 19: any advice you’d like to share?

JC: oh how much time we got? I have a few things: I like to say yes to everything. this is work and experiences – just experience it all. there’s a whole world out there waiting for you and those experiences that you have and those interactions that you have will influence your life and work. and also with your work: do good work because it leads to more work. creativity begets creativity. I believe being creative makes you more creative and so anything that you work on cultivates more ideas and so I like to keep flexing those muscles because you never know where it will take you. and follow through with your commitments. don’t flake. be humble. and have humility. challenge yourself. I found that that like some of the greatest things in my life came from being excited but also having a little bit of fear. and being authentic. who you are. I’m a total dork and I own it and I do things as long as it does not come at the expense of others or hurting others. but I like to tell people don’t be fake or be someone you’re not be you and find your voice. I had a mentor tell me this years ago. Joyce, you have to find your voice. so don’t be afraid to try things, especially for women, find what works for you and what works in your personal life to make things a little bit easier for you and that’s whether it’s convincing a stakeholder of an idea or making connections. I tried a bunch of things in some meetings while I was working Amazon. I knew I wasn’t going to stay there because the culture wasn’t a good match for me so I experimented while I worked there and I found some things that worked for me and meetings and I leaned on my personality to find what works and you know what works for me may not work for other people and vice versa. what works for somebody else doesn’t work necessarily for me so try some stuff and find what works for you find your voice and I think the last thing would be take care of your body because it’s the only one that you have to get you through this life so take good care of it.

TG: great. and the popular One Number 20: how can our listeners keep tabs on you what’s our call to action?

JC: oh boy um I am not good with social media I have a very small life. I have a website joycecroft.com. it’s just my projects and both work and personal stuff. hasn’t been updated in a long time maybe I need to update it now. I do have my LinkedIn that’s my professional Persona. my Instagram is private so you can send me a friend request um I’m kind of very careful about what I put out there I like to keep to myself my family and my close friends um so maybe I need to make a public Instagram now maybe that’s something I’ll do. stay tuned.

TG: awesome. well I am so thrilled that you came on the show today, you know when you made a splash a config I knew that I had to reach out to you and then you got back to me and I was just so happy so um thank you so much for being on today

JC: oh thank you this it’s been an absolute pleasure